Talk:Sidaba Mapu

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Mythology

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On 23 December 2020, it was proposed that this article be moved to Sidaba Mapu. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

On 7 February 2021, it was proposed that this article be moved from Kuru (mythology) to Sidaba Mapu. The result of the discussion was moved.

Undiscussed move

@SpacemanSpiff:I have given the proper reason for renaming and rewriting the article.The current article is in such a bad misinformative condition,after reading this WP:RMAny autoconfirmed user can use the Move function to perform most moves (see Help:How to move a page). If you have no reason to expect a dispute concerning a move, be bold and move the page.I never expected this mythological article title will even be opposed with the various sources I added,Are you abusing your right as an admin?.I am glad you took interest in Meitei mythology but the way you keep is like an attack to the originality of the article... ꯂꯨꯋꯥꯡ (ꯆꯥ) 05:11, 23 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

First, cut the crap, you messed everything up and I came to it because someone asked for help. If you have something to say properly then do that and I'll respond, or else just go away. —SpacemanSpiff 06:02, 23 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I do not mess it up nor am I trying to put crap in it,I am trying to bring the article in a reasonable and appropriate to Kanglei mythology.I stated the reasons and edit summary all based on connection between the linked articles and sources mentioined.ꯂꯨꯋꯥꯡ (ꯆꯥ) 06:26, 23 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 23 December 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. This discussion has been open since 23 December 2020, and in that time no clear consensus has emerged (and nor does it appear that the formation of consensus is imminent). Given this, I have closed this discussion as no consensus. Should further information come to light in relation to an appropriate page title, there is nothing preventing another requested move discussion from being listed. (closed by non-admin page mover) Jack Frost (talk) 08:35, 18 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Kuru (mythology) → Sidaba Mapu – current page title for the mythology God of Meitei mythology is misappropriate and is in confusion with the hindu mythology term Kuru,the new suggested title is common name and can be found using google book or google scholar.The content of the article need to be revised too as many assumption are written instead of taking from reliable source as seen in the etymology section of the article ꯂꯨꯋꯥꯡ (ꯆꯥ) 16:55, 23 December 2020 (UTC) —Relisting. Ⓩⓟⓟⓘⓧ _Talk 04:27, 1 January 2021 (UTC) —Relisting. —Nnadigoodluck███ 06:53, 9 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Please present the evidence here in this move discussion. –Austronesier (talk) 17:07, 23 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Austronesier here is the evidences google book link [1],Google scholar link [2]ꯂꯨꯋꯥꯡ (ꯆꯥ) 18:36, 23 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Relisting comment While RMs do not have min amount of participation required, I do not feel there's enough here to close either by moving or not. Ⓩⓟⓟⓘⓧ _Talk 04:27, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Comment As I have stated the one who opposed the move or claim the updated content by me to be a vandalising or disturbing as mentioned by SpacemanSpiff fail to show proof or support thier claim with reliable sources,I was simply trying update the content and title as per wikipedia common name and from sources best known to the Meiteis.ꯂꯨꯋꯥꯡ (ꯆꯥ) 14:18, 5 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Comment This deity has many names, so I don't think a Google Books search showing that this name is sometimes used suffices for a move. This would need to be looked at by an expert on the subject. Lennart97 (talk) 08:38, 8 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Lennart97: Yes this need to be looked at by an expert, the current title as well as the content are full of misconception..Only Meitei people know about this diety in detail and this religion Sanamahism and its belief itself was abandoned by masses of Meitei for a long period owing to some historical undeniably cruel events in time of Monarch Pamheiba and his successors the irony is even names of regional dieties and temples were converted or mixed with names of other religion during his timesꯂꯨꯋꯥꯡ (ꯆꯥ) 15:04, 8 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Move to Atiya Kuru Sidaba. What a mess. The appeals to unsourced local knowledge are just muddying the waters, that is what Wikipedia calls original research and we don't want it. The article itself says that the common name is Atiya Kuru Sidaba and gives two sources, both in English, but both spell it Atiya Guru Sidaba, a slight phonological change by voicing the plosive. Atiya Kuru Sidaba is a natural disambiguation of Kuru so it seems the better title to me. We should have redirects from the other titles including Atiya Guru Sidaba. I can see no case for Sidaba Mapu which seems not to be English. Andrewa (talk) 07:26, 9 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Andrewa: This title is name of a deity Atiya Guru Sidaba is not english word either,the term Kuru is a misconception which has no meaning to Kanglei mythology or Meitei mythology..Sidaba Mapu is the common name known best to the Meitei people,unfortunately there is no english name for this God.

this is not from a local unsourced knowledge see this book publised in english [3]p72

also this for Sidaba Mapu ^[1] ꯂꯨꯋꯥꯡ (ꯆꯥ) 03:29, 10 January 2021 (UTC) these posts refactored by this permission Andrewa (talk) 10:11, 10 January 2021 (UTC) [reply]

References

^ Rastogi, Priyanka (2019-05-13). Early Sunrise, Early Sunset: Tales of a Solo Woman Traveler Across North East ::and East India. Partridge Publishing. ISBN 978-1-5437-0523-2.

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 7 February 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved (non-admin closure) Vaticidalprophet (talk) 23:46, 14 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Kuru (mythology) → Sidaba Mapu – Reopening move request as the current page title is controversial and the issue raised was not fixed,this is one of the sensitive article concerning religious and cultural belief.Any body having knowledge in this topic are welcome to comment their view.The current name is as controversial as force conversion to hindu by Monarch Pamheiba during his reign in Manipur [4] the current page title has no meaning to the religion(Sanamahism).The title is a fabricated name and neither a common name too.Another common name of this diety is (Taibang Panba Mapu) Some scholarly source supporting Sidaba Mapu are as follows 1 [5] 2 [6] 3 [7] 4[8] etc ꯂꯨꯋꯥꯡ (ꯆꯥ) 13:31, 7 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

this one from a journal [9]

Support, there are multiple meanings of Kuru in various mythologies, including the ancestor of the Pandavas in the Mahabharata. .💠245CMR💠.•^👥📜 07:11, 8 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@245CMR: & @Luwanglinux:

May I intervene at the current discussing topic? Actually, the topic (the very god) has multiple names due to multiple epithets, among which the so called "Sidaba Mapu" is a classical one, of course. The term "Kuru" may lead to confusion with other cultural resources.

If the issue is about shortage of references, citations or links, then I am ready to provide every essentials. I support the topic name moving request. Thank you. Haoreima (talk) 10:20, 8 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

For better understanding, I have added references to the page. Besides, I added a section about the various names along with their meanings in the very article page. Review may help in the discussion, I hope! Haoreima (talk) 10:26, 8 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Question: So this deity obviously has many names. Is there clear evidence that out of all names, Sidaba Mapu is the best article title? The article itself currently states that "He is better known as Atiya Kuru Sidaba." If that is true, why shouldn't Atiya Kuru Sidaba be the title? Lennart97 (talk) 11:51, 8 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The main aim is to make the name of the deity sounds it's originality. Atiya Kuru Sidaba sounds similar to Indo-Aryan words, like Aditya (meaning sky) and Guru (meaning master). It may lead to further argument and debates in future.

On the other hand, there's once a page Atingkok Maru Sidaba, independent from this current page. But later, it got merged here.

I hope only if the term "Atingkok" is made the page name, then there will be no further discussion, I hope. Because Atingkok is the original Sino Tibetan word of Meitei language.

Haoreima (talk) 15:27, 8 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

If anyone thinks that it needs references and citations, then I am ready to offer many sources. Please help in proceeding this task. Haoreima (talk) 15:28, 8 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Lennart97: Yes the term Sidaba Mapu has no influence of other and it is very original and for its meaning "Sidaba" means "Immortal" and "Mapu" meaning "Owner/God".. ,like I previously stated the current article lack various information about the mythical diety as known to its religion(Sanamahism)and you can Verify its authenticity and commonness of the diety from the research paper and scholar articles written in english as I mentioned above. regards ꯂꯨꯋꯥꯡ (ꯆꯥ) 04:35, 9 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support Seems fine with me, based on the comments above. Lennart97 (talk) 09:40, 9 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[1] Rastogi, Priyanka (2019-05-13). Early Sunrise, Early Sunset: Tales of a Solo Woman Traveler Across North East ::and East India. Partridge Publishing. ISBN 978-1-5437-0523-2.

[1]